Oak Room Interview

Where are you from originally?

Indianapolis.

Where did you go to school?

I went to Purdue.

Were you there when Bob Griese was quarterback?

I sure was. Actually he was there when I was an undergraduate. Then when I was in grad school I had Fipps. And I'm trying to remember, there was another one. They had a really good run. And I kept telling my Notre Dame friends that out of the nine years I was there, we beat Notre Dame eight times.

I was upset with this year's game, because I am a Michigan fan, and you came back to beat us. But, I figured that we had beaten you so many times, you finally deserved to win.

Oh, now you're going to rub it in. But you started stealing our players, you took Brian Griese.

Shame on you! They had three touchdowns in the last ten minutes. I feel really sorry for the players and the coaches. It just seems like they are constantly outmanned. I really thought that they matched up well enough to beat Maryland, but oh well.... But, hope springs eternal....

So, you've been on the job for five months, what have been your impressions so far? Has the learning curve been steep?

Well, the Student Affairs staff has been absolutely terrific in helping me out and helping me along. There was a really steep learning curve in a very short period of time. And I still have a long ways to go. I've also enjoyed worked with the student administrators-DSG, the student union, PanHellenic and IFC. It's worked well, especially events like Sigma Chi Derby Days and Devil's Eve. To have those things go well is really exciting. On the other hand, early in the year when we were putting all that money into the non-alcoholic programming, that was a really down time. I learned and I grew up from that one, and I wouldn't make that mistake again.

What has been the most positive aspect of your job as vice president of student affairs?

Having been a counseling director for most of my professional life, one of the characteristics of that is you don't get to see a lot of change occur very fast. You work with students all the time and you may nor may not know if a positive changes is happening. Sometimes you do and that's very gratifying. In this job, if you do something, you see immediate reactions to it-sometimes positive and sometimes negative-but you can influence and can promote change.... The intent is always positive, even thought some people don't see it that way.

What have been some of the most negative aspect?

The most negative aspect was that we put all that money into the early non-alcohol programs, and they essentially flopped. And it was like over $30,000 that went down the drain. Coming from a conservative Midwestern family, that's not good business. That was a real bummer. Sometimes it is a downer that students see me as an alcohol czar, an arch-conservative that is out to stop drinking on the Duke campus. And that's not what I'm trying to do.... I'm trying to make it a safer and more responsible place. And so when I get criticized for doing that it is kind of difficult, and I feel like students just really don't understand. And students do not want to hear that they don't understand something. I feel like if they could really understand what this is about then we could help them. But, that's been difficult, with all this resistance.... For example in The Chronicle and in e-mails, people have asked me about the changes in the alcohol policy and what they've led to, well, there have been no changes to the alcohol policy. I just appointed a committee to review it and perhaps revise it, but there haven't been any changes yet. Others talk about when "Student Affairs took away kegs from fraternities," Student Affairs had nothing to do with that. It was the national interfraternity council. I mean, we stopped mixers. Sometimes you catch the blame for things you did not have much to do with. At the beginning of the year, there were all kinds of rumors-that I was calling the ALE and that we were sending undercover agents out onto west campus. Well, I went out on west campus, but if you think I look like an undercover agent or a first-year student, then so be it.... Sometimes it is kind of funny. I got this e-mail once from a girl who made all kinds of assumptions from a Chronicle article. She sent this quote to me, and I looked at the quote, and I went back and read the article, and the quote was not in the article. She had taken the quote from somewhere else and out it in an entirely different context.... I take the time to write all of them back though. I thank them for their input, but sometimes it isn't the greatest thing I want to hear, but I learn some things from these things.

Do you think the alcohol issue has plagued your job since you took this position?

Plagued is probably too strong a word. Let's say it has absorbed it. I probably spend at least 60 percent of my time dealing with alcohol or alcohol issues.... Every meeting that I go to it pops up, and I kind of sit there with my fingers crossed hoping that it won't come up.

I feel the same way about the same-sex union issue, we get so many letters and columns every day on that issue.

Well, I'd be glad for you guys to talk more about that, it keeps me off the hook.

Do you think that there can be safe drinking at Duke?

I think there can be safer drinking than there is now. As a matter of fact, in spite of what's being said, I think drinking at Duke is safer now than it was at this time last year. I think that Raheem Bath's death did bring it to some student's attention and students are now being more responsible for each other. A lot of people have said "that's bad." One of the things is, the number of people going to the emergency room has gone up. So a lot of people try to tell me "that's bad it shows that what you are doing is not working." And I thought about that a bit, and I said, maybe there is another way to look at that. If the students really got the message about helping each other and helping friends, they're taking each other to the emergency room and that's a very positive thing, and that would cause the numbers to go up. And I tend to believe that. I actually tend to believe that more. I've noticed who's going there and where they are coming from, and actually the fraternities have gotten pretty good about taking people there. Of course, with the amnesty policy it bails them out of trouble. But nonetheless, my concern is kids safety and to make sure they are not dying on me. If that's what it takes to get them there, then I am all for it. If it gets a kid there who needs treatment, then so be it. We've had two undergrads this year, one male and one female. The male had a blood-alcohol content of .296, which is around four times the legal limit. If he had not gotten to the emergency room, there is a good chance he would have died. Within three days later a girl went in with .276-very small girl, very small frame-and there is no way she would have survived if she had not gotten the treatment. For those I just say "Hallelujah." It was very gratifying, the boy, his RA, who was involved in the whole thing, got a really wonderful letter from the mother and father thanking him for basically saving their son's life.... Now the students grumble about some things, but is a safer place. We've haven't changed the culture-they still love to party, they still love to drink-but they are taking better care of themselves.... It is so important for friends to take care of friends. That's what those 15,000 pamphlets were about. People started saying, "we're getting tired of seeing that." After I heard that I said, "then let's get some more out there. Getting tired of it? Then get responsible about it."

did you drink in college?

Yes I did.

What is your favorite drink?

I drank beer when I was in college, but now after spending ten years in Texas, I'd have to say it's margaritas. I had open heart surgery two and a half years ago, a quadruple bypass. As a result of that I take medicines that do not mix well with alcohol, so I can only have one drink at a time.

So only one margarita at a time now?

Yes, but I can sip it for a long time. I don't know if you noticed it, but in The Chanticleer, the section called Parents Weekend shows a guy pouring margarita mix from one bottle and tequila from another bottle into a mother's mouth. Great role model. I'm glad it wasn't my mom.

How do you feel about the issue of calling parents?

I'm ambivalent about it.

Do you think it is too big-brother like?

A little bit. Years ago, back in the 70s, when there was a big push away from in loco parentis, where the college acted like the students parent-this was at the same time when students were pushing for the 18 year old drinking age, saying "we're old enough to fight and lose our lives, so we are old enough to drink." And the nation bought that, because it made sense. And the 18 year old drinking law would still be in effect if not for one thing-the traffic fatalities skyrocketed for that age group. Congress came in and said that they would not give highway funds to states that did not have a 21 year old drinking law.... All that was done with the supposition of "they're 18, they will be responsible." Well, obviously that wasn't the case. A lot of that changed. Since then, these alcohol policies have come along and there has been a lot of ambiguity in them. If you read the Duke alcohol policy, it says "we abide by North Carolina state law which says the drinking age is 21." And for a lot of years, students were allowed to drink with impunity. But in the past ten to fifteen years a cultural switch happened and studies stopped drinking to